congressman, is that what you're saying? >> what i will say is my good friend allyson is your typical socialistic big government bureaucrat and she's right. it's not just health care that we're concerned with. we're concerned with the government taking over the student loan program. we're concerned with a powerful government who is telling general motors now maybe what they can charge for their automobiles. indeed, if the government owns 61%, they can do that. now they want to tell health insurance companies they don't know their bottom line, they don't know what their profit margin is and we, big government, are going to force it on them and cram it down the throats of the american people. this is what we don't want and won't tolerate. >> you know what, we have to go. oh, and -- i hope -- i don't know what happened. we just lost the feed there. but we thank you for joining us, phil gingrey. >> glad to be with you. >> democratic congresswoman allyson schwartz was with us from philadelphia. had a lot of good things to say.

i'm sorry we lost her signal as we continue to look at this health care. bottom line with poppy harlow starts right now. good morning, everyone. big changes this week to your health insurance. what it all means for your bottom line. and credit card use is down. debit card use is up. we're going to tell you why and what it means for you. also straight ahead, the very latest on your number one investment, your house. it's a show that saves you money and it starts right now. all right. you would think that news the recession is officially over would be welcome. the national bureau of economic research says the recession technically ended in june of last year. but what economists say and what americans are feeling on main street are two very different things. take a listen. >> the top economists don't live in the different communities everybody else lives in. i think the recession is ongoing. i think there's some communities it's more like a depression.

>> until i either get a job or get a job interview it's not over. >> i have a masters degree and haven't found a job yet. i graduated in may and i'm working retail and i also -- my other roommate is working retail and we do live paycheck to paycheck. >> look around. i don't know. i don't see many people here at the restaurant. so it may be coming back, but it's coming back slow. >> slow to say the least. what does the official end of the recession really mean for your bottom line? we have a great panel of guests here joining us. the president of consumer education for credit.com. we have the author of "get financially: how to talk money with your honey." thank you for being here. you all have different expertise when it comes to this recession. across the board jobs, housing. start with you elise. this is the longest official recession since the great depression, since the 1930s. lasted 18 months but we even

heard warren buffett say this week the recession isn't over. that's because for the average person it certainly isn't over. >> i think people are really feeling like it's not over. look at the pew research center came out with a study. 55% of americans are earning less than three years ago. the houses are under water so they feel poorer than they actually are. we saw the national poverty rate go up. this is not the hallmark of a healthy economy by any stretch of the imagination. we're not seeing the big engines of growth. unemployment rate shot up against this week. increased levels of initial unemployment claims. plus you've got mortgage rates falling. the only reason they should be falling any further this week is of course that everybody else in the world thinks we're better off. >> if this is a recovery it is certainly a jobless recovery. look, almost 15 million americans out of work. many, many americans underemployed. as ilyce said they're making less than a year ago. not enough to get by for a lot of people. >> i feel like americans have

this sense that both the job market and credit markets are saying to them we're just not into that. literally. and if you are able to get a job right now, what i'm saying, the big trend is perma-lancing. you get a job but without any benefits it's the same full-time hours and you're willing to do it because it's the only thing you can do. >> often working for less because employers can get you for less. >> on top of that you're working for less and the safety gap that you used to be able to rely on for better or worse which was credit you no longer have access to because banks don't want to lend to people who need money. >> wolf blitzer talking about the fact he can get credit but the average person can't get it and he can get it extremely cheaply. there's a disconnect between main street and the people that don't need as much help. what do you think when it comes to credit card use? interesting, dropped 31% from 2007 to 2009. people are using more debit

cards. is that going to affect their credit core? they're obviously trying to say only spend what we have. >> there's nothing wrong with having less credit card debt than we used to have but the challenge is understanding why do we have less credit card debt? it's not necessarily that we've been hit up the side of the face with that frying pain and seen the credit epiphany. that's not what's happening. more are settling their debt or debt charged off. more finding bankruptcy and discharging debt. more having their homes foreclosed so there is more money to throw towards the debt. >> is it a good thing that they are using debit cards more than credit cards when it comes to the credit score? >> it is and isn't. two-sided story. credit card usage smog to help. your checking card information is never reported. the fact you're not getting into more debt is a good thing but a raging effect what is better,

debit card or credit card. you clearly have more protections with a credit card. >> what about vils mannisha. you're all about advice. your vice with he it comes to credit in this market. >> i think john hit on a key point which you want to get to the i shall ew is your behavior changing? i like to see people use charge cards because then they get the benefit of both. they're building the credit history but also have flexibility if they need it if something comes up. what i'm really noticing is a trend toward mindful spending which gives me optimism. because it's harder to open new credit cards they've had to think about do i have lifestyle creep? is there stuff that's come into my life that i really don't need and i can stop spending on. >> what do you need versus what do you want. great advice. thanks so much. also major changes to your health care this week. we're going to break down what it all means for your bottom line straight ahead. e going dow♪ ♪ and we'll ride the bus there

♪ pay the bus fare ♪ or we find a new reason [ female announcer ] something unexpected to the world of multigrain... taste. ♪ we're going down, down, and we ride the bus there ♪ [ female announcer ] delicious pringles multigrain. ♪ a new way of living [ female announcer ] multigrain pops with pringles. step away from the internet. schedule no meetings. hold all your phone calls. for the next hour, there will be no agenda. marie callender's invites you back to lunch, with a new line of fresh recipes. like chicken teriyaki with crisp water chestnuts. it steams to perfection in minutes, giving the fresh flavors and textures of a homemade meal. marie's new steamed meals. it's time to savor. my name isi am a bankerson. with quicken loans. marie's new steamed meals. this is kathy, who i helped do her first home loan, and this is her sister tina, who i also helped do her first home loan.

it was unbelievable how well it all fell together. we wanted to stay in our same neighborhood. kathy said, "well, let me give you rachel's number." rachel just made it effortless. i didn't have to do any of the work. rachel did it for me. extremely friendly... easy. i'll say, "i need this," we'd say here it is, and she says, "great. let me get back to you." so she spent a lot more time with me on the phone, face-to-face. she knows that's what my personality is and what i prefer. whereas if it was somebody else... like me. like tina. i'm on the computer all the time. it was emails and emails and faxes. she was just willing to do it the way we did it. clients i work with develop a relationship that lasts well beyond closing their loan. middle of the day at work i'd be emailing her. i don't know what to do. she's like, "don't worry. i got it." i don't want to say brainless, 'cause i'm smart, but i didn't have to think about any of it. easy. easy. easy. the whole loan process was simple and convenient! that's why i love quicken loans! ♪ long summer days, and not enough sleep. what i wouldn't do for a do-over. [ female announcer ] neutrogena® clinical skincare,

exclusive ion2 complex combined with activating cream helps restore collagen depleted skin. neutrogena clinical skincare is clinically tested to undo the look of a year's worth of skin aging in just 4 weeks. do-overs do exist. [ female announcer ] clinical skincare. neutrogena. #1 dermatologist recommended brand. well, this thursday marked the six month anniversary of health care reform. it was also the day that several key changes kicked in. here with all the details about how it affects your insurance because it's very, very important is our good friend andrew rubin from nyu's langow

medical center. i think the first thing people need to know is especially if they have employer-based health care, it may not change because it's grandfathered in. >> basically it means during health care reform p president said if you like your insurance you can keep it. this says employers don't have to implement all the changes we're going to talk about in a minute. they have to implement some of them but not all of them. over time they have to change. >> i think one of the most important changes that's going to affect at los people i've spoken with is the mandated coverage for adult dependence up to age 26. so if you are on your parents' insurance you can stay on it until you're 26 years old. >> that's a big deal. dependent children could be married and not living in your parents' house but still be covered. here's a little catch with the grandfathered provision. if you're a child and your employer offers health insurance and you don't take it because you can't afford it you can't go

on your parents 'policy. >> total loophole? children no longer denied coverage for preexisting conditions. what's interesting is this week alone we've seen major insurers come out and say we are not going to allow child-only plans because they're too expensive. they're getting around it. >> they're getting around it. the white house is saying you made a commitment to us you wouldn't do this so we'll see how it plays out. the intention is to make sure the children don't get dropped in their parents' coverage. >> one thing that happened a number of times before reform is people would submit medical claims and the insurer would drop them. they would look back on records and find something possibly not related and say you didn't report this and drop you. they can't do that anymore. >> if you're honest the way you fill out insurance forms they can no longer drop you when you get sick. and they have to keep paying those claims. >> that's critical. preventive care. we heard the white house say so much health care reform will save americans money, it will save this country money.

prepreventive care one of the things that kicks in this week. is that going to kick in this week? >> preventive care we've talked about on the show will save money over time. number one it's not free because you still pay your premiums for your health care insurance. number two under grandfathered plans employers don't have to offer this kind of free care if you want to call it free care. >> and on wednesday this week, the president spoke at the home of someone who had before a limit on their coverage. now there are no lifetime limits on the amount of hemt insurance coverage you can have. the president really touted that this week saying this is a critical change. >> doesn't happen often but people when they have a catastrophic illness or a newborn is born and they're on their parents' policies they will quickly hit their lifetime caps which usually run between $1 million and $2 million. sounds like a lot but when something bad happens it's not a lot of money. there are new rules about annual limits.

a lot of plans have annual amounts and there new rules that phase in over time that raise the amounts insurers have to cover. >> i'm always battling with in network, out of network, who i can use. this is changing as well. >> this is changing. under health care reform if you're not in a grandfathered plan an obstetrician ob/gyn for awoman or pediatrician is considered a primary care provider. if you're in a tightly managed network where you have to be in network you don't have to go today primary internist. this should make it easier for a lot of people. >> in terms of emergency room visits those add up. it's also something that really added to the health care cost for america in general because people were going to emergency rooms that didn't have health care insurance before. that changes now as well. >> has to be one of my favorites but is complicated especially a hospital in network. a lot of people are going to an

emergency room thought they were going to in network only to find out the doctor was out of network and they have large bills. there are new rules if you're not in a grandfathered plan that says how insurance companies have to reimburs the physician. an if you see an out of network doctor they can balance bill you. you also don't need authorization when you go to the emergency room anymore. >> there will still be bickering over claims if that's still going to exist between people and their insurance companies but the appeals process has changed in favor of patients when it comes to the claims. >> they basically turned the tide. the insurance company could say we're denying this for whatever reason and the individual had to fight with the insurance company to get it paid. in the interim were chased after by the doctor and the hospital. now the insurance company has to pay the claims until the dispute is resolved and they have to have a published and understood process for revealing claims. grandfathered plans don't apply. >> a lot of people will have the plans grandfathered in and a lot won't change for them.

for others it will change. let's open it up to everyone again. john, to you. 50 million americans without health insurance still according the census. you're still on the fence about health care reform. why? >> i'm still on the fence for a couple of reasons. "a" everything you said sounds really expensive and i think it's going to make it more expensive for everyone's health insurance. second, as a small business owner, i am terrified about someone telling me that i have to insure somebody. it keeps me from hiring people. >> if you have 50 employees or less it won't happen at least not yet. >> that's right but it's an incentive not to hire number 51. and that's something that as a small business owner, that unknown and that uncertainty keeps me from spending. >> and you talk about costs. ilyce, you said your family premium is incredibly expensive and has gone up because of health care reform you think? >> i think so. i'm hearing from people on my radio show, all the over the country that people are seeing their individual plan premiums

jump. my jumped. we're now paying as a family something like $2200 a month. that's for a family of four. i think the reality -- we don't have -- this is the so-called gold-plated plan which is not gold plated. doesn't have dental or vision or orthodontics. i'm sure we have to pay more if we go to the emergency room. when you look at what's actually available out there for individuals, this whole benefit that we're all going to be getting from this is really lost on me. i have yet to see anything positive. >> there are those that say more americans will hopefully be covered. but the cost is going to go up and the cost hasn't been tackled yet. so we have to keep a very close eye on that. when it comes to people's plans, open enrollment manisha, what's your advice as they look through the employer-based plans. >> >> we're heading into that key season where you can make very vital decisions. one thing shocking to me andrew pointed out in grandfathered plans you're still responsible for co-pays and various other out of pocket expenses is that four out of five americans that

have access to flexible spending accounts right now aren't using them. so they're literally leaving up to 40% off coupon on the table. so i want to encourage everyone to check with their hr departments. see if you have a plan just to get a sense over 100,000 items that are fsa eligible and you can go to the website called save smart spend healthy where you can see a list of the things you can use fsa spending for. >> huge debate ahead. we could go on and on with this. thank you so much. if you are a small business owner, if you buy health insurance yourself or if you're a senior citizen, you're going to want to check out this story on cnnmoney.com. up next, the glimpse into the wild ride that is of course the american housing market. should you buy? should you have sell? should you reneau vat? my father brought me up to give back to society... felicia jackson promised her late sister that she would take care of her children. but she needed help. i used my american express open card to get half a million points to buy building materials

to help build the jackson family a new home. well, i know if my dad was still around, he would have told me, with no doubt... he would have told me it's a no brainer and i knew that from the start. it was an honor. booming is moving forward by giving back. [ tires screech ] [ engine revving ] [ drums playing ] [ male announcer ] 306 horsepower. race-inspired paddle shifters and f sport-tuned suspension. all available on the new 2011 lexus is. it isn't real performance, unless it's wielded with precision. see your lexus dealer.

well lots of housing news this week. let's get back to our panel. guys, thanks for being here. i want to talk about something that came out in the middle of the week. alli financial. here's what happened. le one of the heads of the departments, in terms of the people that sign off on

foreclosures did so and said this in deposition, without verifying the paperwork, without reading through all of it. so some people were foreclosed upon without this verification. they've taken obviously extreme precautions. they've suspended all residential foreclosures, evictions in 23 states. and i want to read you what a spokesperson said to be fair here. she says, quote, there's no evidence of any factual misstatements or details typically contained in these affidavits such as the loan balance, its delinquency and the accuracy of the note. she is saying that just because there was not verification it does not mean these people should not have been foreclosed upon. okay, but i talked to the lawyer representing some of these folks. he said that's not the case. i found situations in which their underlying facts were gone. you have all of this going on. what do struggling homeowners need to know right now

especially if it looks like this could be a systemic problem and not just ally financial's issue. >> the lawsuits are going to begin. i wrote a blog on "money watch" about loan modification and lawsuits. i've been looking at this issue for the last year and a half. the loan modification programs from the government are not worked. the supposed modification programs from them are starting to fault. those who have commented on these can't all be wrong. even if it's a drop in a bucket, it's still thousands of people who shouldn't be faced with this. >> do you think it may result of folks getting back in their home? >> how do you take back a home that was already sold to another. how many transactions do you unwind to get back to where you are. i'm getting details daily that

my house was sold out from under me and i was supposedly still under a modification loan program. how does this work? >> we saw some interesting numbers. housing starts rose, 10.5% in august. compare that with home prices, down enough 0.5% in july. the numbers are all over the board, no consistency. people don't know what to do. >> i think the problem is people don't know what to do. i think if we rewind the clock and look back at the minute and a half of signing the paperwork that started this, people clearly don't understand how much house they can afford. >> you think still that's the case? >> my favorite comes from elizabeth warren, 50, 30, 20. no more than 50% of your income can be going toward your needs without something having to go. people who think they can buy houses that will put that number

well over 50%. >> of course, elizabeth warren, the champion for consumers setting up that protection agency. what do you think, john? two more years for painful mortgages. >> at least. there's no silver lining. there are still many vintages of jautable mortgages that are still yet to reset, which will likely make them unaffordable because they owe a principal requirement versus just an interest requirement, which means you'll have people defaulting for the nefrt xt 24 hours. h.a.m.p. is a disaster. you have consumers who don't believe they have a hardship. they're not finding out a couple of weeks later but nine months later that their application has been denied. by the way, your foreclosure proceedings have begun and you're past due and your credit history has been destroyed.

you missed it because a my lender told me to. i didn't choose to. it's an abject failure. >> the government said if you were current with your pavements when you went into the modification program, you would not go in as late and it didn't happen that way and millions of people's credit have been destroyed. >> look at all of the people involved, the government, the banks, and let's not forget the homeown homeowners. they got caught in the situation. we're going to have fun when we come back. get ready, everyone, for a fun free day for your family. what's happening in all 50 states today that is not going to cost you a dime. that's next. well-being. we're all striving for it.

purina cat chow helps you nurture it in your cat with a full family of excellent nutrition and helpful resources. purina cat chow. share a better life.

purina cat chow. i can take one airline out... and another home. so with more flight options, i can find the combination that gets me there and back quickest. where you book matters. expedia.

all right. so what is better than something free for the entire family? today we've got something special for you.

it is the smithsonian's magazine's sixth annual museum day. a lot of museums across the country -- take a look. the intrepid space museum, the franklin institute in philadelphia, in l.a. the national center. there is something fun and free for everyone today. all you need to do is log onto the smithsonian museum day website, print out the admission card for two free visitors and go to the museum of your choice. guys, what are the three favorite things to do with your family? >> my wife and i have passes on the marta. woe love to take our son and ride up and down the north line. he loves it. it's like a roaming play free-for-all. >> what about you, elise? >> we really like to do long walks in the chicago botanic garden which is very near